Bored with repetative game patterns

[HopesGaming]

I am not sure what you are smoking, but the person that is not making sense is you.
And I am confident enough that other forum users will agree with me.

And I also heavily disagree with you.

Your whole argument is that a story is not a story because it's not finished.
Then that gets disproven by showing examples such as on-going tv-shows, movies, anime, etc.
You then try to disprove it by saying that they all have arcs and conclusions.

This is wrong on so many levels.

Of the uncountable series of any media out there - do you really believe they all follow the same formula?
Do you really think that there does not exist a story out there that is not written with arcs and conclusion?
And let say that ALL of them have - many series have arcs stretching for such a long time. Is it not a story during that arc period?
Some mangas have arcs that lasted years. People still tuned in week after week.

Now, there IS something that draws the reader in. And that is what I think you meant to say. It can be anything to character building, mystic, some parts of the main overarching story etc.
But you neglect the fact that this does not speak for you but against you. The argument is that it is still considered a STORY even tho it still is in development. That the 'arcs' haven't been finished and there is no real date on when it will be finished.
Do you think series, books, mangas, etc. releases arc-based? That they write the whole arc before they finish.
Don't do that because linking any ongoing series will disprove that.

Secondly, what adult games are you even talking about?
There are not many story-driven adult games that focus heavily enough on the story aspect that it can be written into the template.
My own can. But I do have arcs and conclusions. I even named the arcs and events. Some are still at work.
The other games, and the ones you probably are thinking about, works in a different way.

Let's take an example of a random adult game that focuses on the porn rather than an overarching story.
The 'arc' is the girl's path. There are events, tasks, etc. with her and the 'conclusion' is then the final scene with her for that update. The 'conclusion is usually the sexual part.
The story in those games is usually just a way to drive the sex further and the devs of those games don't really care about the story. They never intended to make a story-focused game and hence it would be silly to talk about the story aspect of those games.

These talks should only be aimed at games that have story as the main focus and because of that, I am having a hard time trying to understand which game you are saying have stories that can't be called stories.

 

[HopesGaming]

A car needs to drive in order to be a car, half of a car that could be beautiful when finished is still not a car.
So is a Story, if it cannot satisfy the basic requirements that make up a story then its not a story.
If you take a book and saw it in half it's not a story anymore.

The car analogy is not viable.
It's two different things.

It is a forced analogy made to falsely verify your own argument.
A car has one function. And that is to drive.
An unfinished car cannot drive.
An unfished story can still be read and enjoyed.

You do not sit in a car that is not finished and enjoy the drive. Because it can't.
You can however sit in a car and read your favorite weekly manga. Even though the chapter is part of an overarching story and in the middle of a subplot. The chapter has no conclusion, nor does it finished the arc. It is a work in progress.
But it can be enjoyed. And it is being enjoyed. Want to know the popularity of weekly mangas? Heck, you may even be a reader of it yourself and contradicting your own views by reading it.

 

[DuniX]

Then that gets disproven by showing examples such as on-going tv-shows, movies, anime, etc.

How does that disprove it? Anime and TV Shows are made in Seasons, even for the smaller OVAs they still have smaller plot arcs. Movies are you saying you are watching something that doesn't makes sense at the end and can't stand on its own? Even for trilogies they have their own smaller self contained arcs.

Of the uncountable series of any media out there - do you really believe they all follow the same formula?
Do you really think that there does not exist a story out there that is not written with arcs and conclusion?

I am not sure how that is a surprise, even for the Episodic format each episode has its own plot and conclusion.

Do you think series, books, mangas, etc. releases arc-based? That they write the whole arc before they finish.

Books and Manga are released in Volumes which are pretty self contained, you can randomly pick a volume up and it will still make sense without the context of the prior and future volumes in the series.

Don't do that because linking any ongoing series will disprove that.

Comics, manga and webnovels that are released in chapters would be a better argument for you, but they don't make a story by themselves individually.

These talks should only be aimed at games that have story as the main focus and because of that,

If you reread my posts here my disagreement is precisely with those heavily story focused projects, they tend to have bigger more convoluted plots that aren't going to be resolved anytime soon. Like I said before if it were more Episodic or focused on the Porn instead of the Story I wouldn't have a problem with it.
But focusing and basing their appeal on the Story is a choice a Developer makes.
But if its Value needs to come from being a Story, then it can only be Judged when it is a Story however small that story is.
Half of a Story I do not see as having any Value at all yet regardless of its potential quality, especially since the project can drop off at any time and remain unfinished, or it can take years upon years to reach.
If I were to take a book and rip it in half then No it will Not Provide Me Any Enjoyment.

Your project is not a Shonen Manga, you are not a webnovel, you are not a volume of a book so you cannot be judged as such.
By your own choices and structure your project needs to be judged more holistically.

 

[Lerd0]

Manga are released in Volumes which are pretty self contained, you can randomly pick a volume up and it will still make sense without the context of the prior and future volumes in the series.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I wonder what's the word count on this thread?

Hey, there's a reward every billion words... No ?

 

[Diconica]

Oh my. So that is your take of it? That I took his comment as elitist simply because he didn't share my opinion? Well aren't you a sharp one! Tho, I would say that most would think it was an 'elitist' take due to stuff like;
...

Ever heard the term ignorance is bliss?
Well its been proven scientifically to be factual.

People with higher intelligence and education are harder to please and don't release endorphins as readily as someone with a lower IQ or lower education.

You can find crap loads of research and articles on the topic of stuff like intelligence vs pleasure, intelligence vs happiness... education vs ...
universities, nih, scientificamerica ... litteraly millions of research papers and articles.

People who are more educated and intelligent are usually more miserable.

You can even find a number of ways people try to explain the issue.

You ever heard uneducated people or stupid people bragging how smart they are and so on.
It comes down to the issue because they know so little they have no fair comparison of how much they don't know.

Take a gifted child and put them in a normal class and suddenly their grades drop. Why? Boredom and or being ostracized... are among the top reasons.

Smarter people see larger pictures and absorb stuff faster. First, understand cognitive power isn't linear when you are looking at IQ points is more exponential. I don't know what the actual exponential change is.
So if a person with a 100IQ absorbs 25% of what goes on around him someone with a 120IQ is going to absorb a 50% 140 might absorb 100% ... You probably going but you can only have 100% That would be wrong because all that data can also be correlated and compared and tied together in other ways thus leading to more data.
I figure you probably are as capable of doing a search as I am.

Does that mean a person with greater intellect can't enjoy a poorly written work? No, it means it is less probable or that the enjoyment won't be as great as it would if it was well written.

Are the person making the statements you pointed out an elitist? Maybe.
They could be simply over relying on the data or facts as pointed out above.
Maybe, they also just got to invested in the discussion and thus responded in poor taste.
Regardless what the reason it doesn't change the fact regarding intelligence and education vs enjoyment.


It isn't a matter of being wrong for enjoying something.
It is however a matter that if the work was better written it could be enjoyed by more people.

Take something like minor grammatical issues. I'm going to use a person example. I'm a bit lazy.
If I'm paid to write something I'll do the work. But if I write something like a note or message to a colleague I don't pay a lot of attention to grammar as much. Yea, I hear about it a lot because it frustrates them.(Maybe, I get a certain amount of enjoyment out of their frustration also.)
A less educated person isn't as likely to notice grammatical errors. They often either write shorter sentences to compensate because others have gotten on to them. That or they write run on sentences often. If they are at that level they sure as hell won't catch issues like plot holes or even know the various types. But they will stand out to a person that is more educated.

Understand when I say something well written I don't mean it needs to be full of intellectual discourse or subjects or anything like that. I don't even look to much at grammar issues because English is a second language to many of the authors.

What I do expect though.
Make sure the logic of the story holds.
That plot holes don't blatantly exist.
Don't short cut shit to get to a fap scene.

People aren't simple and easily manipulated the way some of these writers(using that loosely) try to make out.

Don't use shit like blackmail and half ass it simply so the character says, "I guess I have no choice", when in reality she / he has a million choices they could use. https://f95zone.to/threads/blackmail-is-a-weak-characters-card.66935/

Don't make the person out to be an intelligent individual but only capable of acting like an idiot through out the story.

Don't write about shit you yourself do not understand. Do the research have someone explain it to you who does understand how it works. Use a reliable source not a friend. I can't count the number of times someone said, "but my friend said."


That all said we could all be a bit more mindful of how we say and word stuff on here. I'm more than a little guilty of that.

 

[Diconica]

Since you're relaying on that tool, just for the record: I disagree with you.

You realize he said others not all?
Given that others have already voiced agreement you aren't going to prove his statement wrong.

 

[Adabelitoo]

You realize he said others not all?
Given that others have already voiced agreement you aren't going to prove his statement wrong.

Who said I was all? Who said I was pretending to be all? Who said I was talking to or about anyone else besides him? Who said that I was disapproving others agreement?

Sorry but since you're answering for him, you sound in the same way he does and you both even have a Violet D in your avatar, I can't avoid making connections. Not an acussation though, not like I could prove it, I just thought it would be funy to point that out.

 

[After Colony]

This is why I decided to start developing my own games, I like the storyline and I like having agency in my story. I want the character in danger, but I want to give the player agency in that situation. I like serious storylines, I like the game acting like a real game, but those dangerous situations? I felt this way when I was younger about Heavy Rain or Tomb Raider games, they had normal plots, obviously not much sex, but I mean Madison in HR would be in serious danger in her scenarios of being raped or tortured, same with Lara. My favourite games have been the ones with semi-serious plots with situations that the character COULD get in and out of.

 

[Diconica]

Who said I was all? Who said I was pretending to be all? Who said I was talking to or about anyone else besides him? Who said that I was disapproving others agreement?

Sorry but since you're answering for him, you sound in the same way he does and you both even have a Violet D in your avatar, I can't avoid making connections. Not an acussation though, not like I could prove it, I just thought it would be funy to point that out.

I didn't choose the violet D just what this site assigned based on the name used.

As to the other part, it sounded like you were simply trying to disprove his statement by saying you were not in agreement with it.
Granted you could just be voicing that you were one of the number of people who didn't agree with him. Which you could have easily said. Such as count me among those who don't agree with you. Which there are quite a few I am sure that disagree.

You did however say for the record. Which could be you are just pointing it out. I could go into an entire synopsis of the statement but I'll take as you just saying you were only pointing it out. It would only serve to create contention.

Frankly, I don't agree with everything Dunix says and I would guess he doesn't agree with everything I have to say either.
Example: Dunix definition of a story would consider stories that end on a cliff hanger as not stories. The same would go for stories that fall off to allow readers to imagine the ending. He said any story that isn't complete isn't a story.

 

[DuniX]

Dunix definition of a story would consider stories that end on a cliff hanger as not stories. The same would go for stories that fall off to allow readers to imagine the ending. He said any story that isn't complete isn't a story.

For the record that is not quite right, for an Arc its best understood in terms of Plot and Plot threads.
If all the plot threads have been appropriately tied and if there are still elements of mystery remaining but no further plot development is necessary then its fine to be concluded as an open ended story.
A Cliff Hanger means there are plot threads loose with the expectation that they are going to be continued in the series but that doesn't mean that they weren't any plot threads have been concluded thus making an Arc.

How Soap Opera's work what makes them truly Endless is maintain, starting and concluding a number of parallel plot threads over the course of each episode.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You ever heard uneducated people or stupid people bragging how smart they are and so on.

Like writing an essay over what smartness can be, and writing it like if the author was teaching to people who don't know what it mean ?

 

[peterppp]

You ever heard uneducated people or stupid people bragging how smart they are and so on.
It comes down to the issue because they know so little they have no fair comparison of how much they don't know.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Diconica]

For the record that is not quite right, for an Arc its best understood in terms of Plot and Plot threads.
If all the plot threads have been appropriately tied and if there are still elements of mystery remaining but no further plot development is necessary then its fine to be concluded as an open ended story.
A Cliff Hanger means there are plot threads loose with the expectation that they are going to be continued in the series but that doesn't mean that they weren't any plot threads have been concluded thus making an Arc.

How Soap Opera's work what makes them truly Endless is maintain, starting and concluding a number of parallel plot threads over the course of each episode.

There are other reasons to end a story without a conclusion.
One reason would be to allow the reader to think about the events leading up to the point and develop their own ideas or explore the way they thought about it.
Some are simply done so people can fill in what they want to happen.

Technically a story can be a single sentence in length. Doesn't mean it will be an epic story but still its a story. So long as it conveys what the writer wants to impart.

Tom kicked the ball to Sally.
vs
On a cold winters day as it rain broke over the park, Tom kicked a soccer ball to Sally.
or
As rain broke over the park on this typical cold Chicago winters day, Tom kicks a soccer ball to Sally.

Stories are about what the author wants to convey or impart, sometimes its about the emotions they want to stir and what they want people to think about.
Sometimes concluding a story isn't the right answer.

Say the writer wants to get readers to think about what they would do if they are struggling in a low income family trying to make ends meet.
What is more effective telling the user the father went to a job interview that they got it, didn't get it or just stopping there.
If they stop there the reader is forced to think about it actually more so than if you concluded it either way. Why simply they wonder what happened. That question generally leads to more questions for most people such as what would I do in that situation.

That said I doubt there are that heavy of writers in the adult game industry. Not saying we could use it but that isn't most of these writers goals to get you to think.

Lets say I agreed with you. I doubt it would matter much. Not like anything I say is going to change the literary world out there. They aren't going to suddenly tell authors from hear to the beginning of whenever Oh BTW your story doesn't count because you didn't complete it.

 

[Cherry Popper]

It sounds to me like the OP either doesn't like these kinds of games, or is simply burnt out on them. Do we want creators to copy their real sex life? Probably not since chances are he's either married/a steady girlfriend (or whatever), or doesn't get it very often.

These games are about fantasy. And there are a limited number of fantasies, so there is going to be a lot of new takes on the same old fantasies. For me, the sexy is just he carrot. The search isn't about some new fantasy or some profound new way of telling the story, it's about if I like the characters enough to enjoy the game. That said, the sex scenes better not suck or I'll stop playing.

I think people are to harsh. If you didn't like a game, move on. If you liked it, play it. If you get no enjoyment out of any of them, then why play them?

 

[Diconica]

It sounds to me like the OP either doesn't like these kinds of games, or is simply burnt out on them. Do we want creators to copy their real sex life? Probably not since chances are he's either married/a steady girlfriend (or whatever), or doesn't get it very often.

These games are about fantasy. And there are a limited number of fantasies, so there is going to be a lot of new takes on the same old fantasies. For me, the sexy is just he carrot. The search isn't about some new fantasy or some profound new way of telling the story, it's about if I like the characters enough to enjoy the game. That said, the sex scenes better not suck or I'll stop playing.

I think people are to harsh. If you didn't like a game, move on. If you liked it, play it. If you get no enjoyment out of any of them, then why play them?

Guessing by your reply you read the first paragraph of the original post and stopped there.
Otherwise you would know it isn't an issue of being burned out about any story.
You would also know that I discussed the different types of stories (conflict types). That covers your comment about only so many types.
You would also know I gave examples of the writing issues I actually am have an issue with.

Maybe what you need is some fresh examples and demos of how shitty some of the writing is.
Well take a look at blackmail and how these writers do with it.
Most common way blackmail is used by a writer, they are captured in some compromising photograph. It is as if most the writers are in capable of figuring out another means or way to blackmail someone. Most blackmails scenes in games cause huge plothole issues. Do you know why? For one they tend to always put the character in conflict of risking the very thing they want to protect. Most these lazy shit for authors use something to the effect of, "I guess I have to go along with this I really have no choice," type of crap when the character literally has millions of choices. Even when going along with it is the worst option they have. Half the authors do go beyond that stupidity and build the character up before hand as being smart educated and yet in these cases they act like total morons.

It would be a million times better if they dirtied up the blackmail character first. She has one thing she is after and that won't be compromised by the blackmail and she is a bit used to using her body for to get what she wants or she is already a bit slutty to start with. Then you have a character who is more likely and believable to go along with blackmail.
Blackmail is all about information a picture is only one form of information. It could be information about a divorce, prior criminal record, cheating in college, falsifying documents, perjury, a wreck, a death, a relationship, false identity, and many more things.

Blackmail doesn't need to be only about negative information. It can also be about access to information a person wants or wants to keep someone else from. Take for example information about a company that could give a character insight into a land deal or stock change or merger, or maybe it is information about another person they don't want getting ahead such maybe they don't want another person to find out they are a potential heir or that they are entitled to monies for one reason or another.

Topics the author doesn't understand but tries to use anyway.
Chemistry, Biologic, Physics, Nuclear, Electrical, Hacking, How a gun works, automotive or engines ... long list.
It is bad when the author doesn't even know the difference between a solution and a mixture or what types of chemicals would form which ones.
Biology - how about actually knowing the bones, organs and basic body chemistry
physics - it would be nice if they knew the laws and principles in physics and how they applied.fluid dynamics and gases...
Nuclear - types of reactions, basic reactor configuration, I wouldn't expect someone to know the entire workings, sure as hell don't expect them to be able to calculate the probability of a fission reactions ... The very basics would be nice. So you don't sound like a complete moron.
Electrical Difference between volts and AMPs how the power and current formula, difference between a ground, earth ground and floating ground is, 3 phase vs single phase.
Hacking - pentest various types, various types of attacks. IP spoofing is not a type of attack. If the only attack type you know is DNS just shut up you aren't a hacker that's denial of service not accessing shit.
Firearms - open bolt system vs closed bolt system. Why it is easier to make a full auto than it is to make a semi auto. If you don't know you don't understand guns. Recoil. What direction does a BAR pull?
Automotive / engines. Difference between a crank shaft and a cam shaft. Difference between hydraulic and rocker roller, what is a push rod, ...
All it would take is for them to look the stuff up and learn something just a little ask someone who is knowledgeable about it (NOT A FRIEND).
I could go on to list flying, sailing, navigation, out doors, survival, economics, politics, social structures ...

Seriously, most the time I have to assume the authors never got out and done shit in their life. It's like they are the kid that grew up and moved into their parents basement. How the hell do you grow up and not at least have the basic understanding of some of these.
Hell when I was growing up we didn't have the internet we either learned it in school, went and did it some how, or we bought books on it. Today they have an ocean of fucking information they can download at their fingertips and they don't understand shit. How much of a looser do you have to be not to take advantage of that? Seriously.
It's like they have no ambition to better themselves in any real way sure they will try and make a game because the money interests them or they think it is easy when they start. Only a few are actually willing to put in any required effort to make a moderately quality product.

I probably could write a decalogy to rival L Ron Hubbard's, "Mission Earth" just on the stuff these writers fail at.
I'm not I probably already wrote to much as it is.

Either way have a good night.

 

[Cherry Popper]

Guessing by your reply you read the first paragraph of the original post and stopped there.
Otherwise you would know it isn't an issue of being burned out about any story.
You would also know that I discussed the different types of stories (conflict types). That covers your comment about only so many types.
You would also know I gave examples of the writing issues I actually am have an issue with.

Maybe what you need is some fresh examples and demos of how shitty some of the writing is.
Well take a look at blackmail and how these writers do with it.
Most common way blackmail is used by a writer, they are captured in some compromising photograph. It is as if most the writers are in capable of figuring out another means or way to blackmail someone. Most blackmails scenes in games cause huge plothole issues. Do you know why? For one they tend to always put the character in conflict of risking the very thing they want to protect. Most these lazy shit for authors use something to the effect of, "I guess I have to go along with this I really have no choice," type of crap when the character literally has millions of choices. Even when going along with it is the worst option they have. Half the authors do go beyond that stupidity and build the character up before hand as being smart educated and yet in these cases they act like total morons.

It would be a million times better if they dirtied up the blackmail character first. She has one thing she is after and that won't be compromised by the blackmail and she is a bit used to using her body for to get what she wants or she is already a bit slutty to start with. Then you have a character who is more likely and believable to go along with blackmail.
Blackmail is all about information a picture is only one form of information. It could be information about a divorce, prior criminal record, cheating in college, falsifying documents, perjury, a wreck, a death, a relationship, false identity, and many more things.

Blackmail doesn't need to be only about negative information. It can also be about access to information a person wants or wants to keep someone else from. Take for example information about a company that could give a character insight into a land deal or stock change or merger, or maybe it is information about another person they don't want getting ahead such maybe they don't want another person to find out they are a potential heir or that they are entitled to monies for one reason or another.

Topics the author doesn't understand but tries to use anyway.
Chemistry, Biologic, Physics, Nuclear, Electrical, Hacking, How a gun works, automotive or engines ... long list.
It is bad when the author doesn't even know the difference between a solution and a mixture or what types of chemicals would form which ones.
Biology - how about actually knowing the bones, organs and basic body chemistry
physics - it would be nice if they knew the laws and principles in physics and how they applied.fluid dynamics and gases...
Nuclear - types of reactions, basic reactor configuration, I wouldn't expect someone to know the entire workings, sure as hell don't expect them to be able to calculate the probability of a fission reactions ... The very basics would be nice. So you don't sound like a complete moron.
Electrical Difference between volts and AMPs how the power and current formula, difference between a ground, earth ground and floating ground is, 3 phase vs single phase.
Hacking - pentest various types, various types of attacks. IP spoofing is not a type of attack. If the only attack type you know is DNS just shut up you aren't a hacker that's denial of service not accessing shit.
Firearms - open bolt system vs closed bolt system. Why it is easier to make a full auto than it is to make a semi auto. If you don't know you don't understand guns. Recoil. What direction does a BAR pull?
Automotive / engines. Difference between a crank shaft and a cam shaft. Difference between hydraulic and rocker roller, what is a push rod, ...
All it would take is for them to look the stuff up and learn something just a little ask someone who is knowledgeable about it (NOT A FRIEND).
I could go on to list flying, sailing, navigation, out doors, survival, economics, politics, social structures ...

Seriously, most the time I have to assume the authors never got out and done shit in their life. It's like they are the kid that grew up and moved into their parents basement. How the hell do you grow up and not at least have the basic understanding of some of these.
Hell when I was growing up we didn't have the internet we either learned it in school, went and did it some how, or we bought books on it. Today they have an ocean of fucking information they can download at their fingertips and they don't understand shit. How much of a looser do you have to be not to take advantage of that? Seriously.
It's like they have no ambition to better themselves in any real way sure they will try and make a game because the money interests them or they think it is easy when they start. Only a few are actually willing to put in any required effort to make a moderately quality product.

I probably could write a decalogy to rival L Ron Hubbard's, "Mission Earth" just on the stuff these writers fail at.
I'm not I probably already wrote to much as it is.

Either way have a good night.

Ok fair enough. So your problem really isn't the fact that many games have similar plots, it's just the lazy writing?

 

[Diconica]

Ok fair enough. So your problem really isn't the fact that many games have similar plots, it's just the lazy writing?

Correct.

 

[Minaro]

The Solution is Simple.
Disregard Writing. Add Gameplay.
Fuck Visual Novels.
...
...

To each their own. Personally I like my story, even if I can appreciate games with little to no story. Disregarding that though, it sounds to me like you have two "problems" that aren't actually problems. One being VNs not being real games, but if you ask in the VN communities most of them agree that VNs usually are not games, but more accurately a different medium. VNs being called games is just a "problem" that originates from all the way back when they first started appearing in the west - as most people had no real point of reference nor any better ideas, the general consensus was just "It's a game" for gamers and non-gamers alike.

The second one is either that there's not enough games using the "3D style" art style, or that there's not enough games, PERIOD. If you're talking about the first then yes, your choice is somewhat limited since the "3D style" was never particularly popular in Japan where the majority of erotic games come from, and for games that do there's notably very few in the most popular (based on frequency) styles seen around here.

If you're talking about not enough games in general, that's only really true if you're only counting English/English-translated titles. If you're willing/able to work past that you've got enough good gameplay titles to keep you occupied for a century if you wanted to (barring extremely picky/narrow taste for gameplay).

Honestly, with as large as some of these games are getting they would have been better off using real time 3D. There are enough advanced methods out there you can create very high detailed scenes and not use near the amount of drive space they are sucking up for images in many of these games 4+ gigs. You can fit a hell of a lot of 3D data in that space with the textures to boot. The biggest issue is it comes down to optimizing the models and textures to get the best space savings and so on and still preserve the look you want. With proper optimization you can make an 1800 to 2500 polygon character look almost indistinguishable from a 25000 poly character.

Can't say much for real time 3D, but many eroge developers are using Live2D these days, both for animated and non-animated scenes.

Rig the characters correctly generate animation loops for the various actions then you could literally have any sex scene any place in game you want. The only real issue is you won't be using Renpy for doing that.
That falls well out side the scope of most the developers ability.

Depends on how much control and freedom you're talking about here, as well as what art styles you want to limit yourself to, otherwise you already have all the tools readily available from Illusion, most notably with Koikatsu and Honey Select.

As for using any model you have, you are correct that it becomes a lot more difficult. Anyone can do a sex scene using Illusion titles with no real skills required, but you would need at least some time, learn some basic knowledge/enough tinkering and some decent camera movement control to do it "on your own", but if you're willing to limit your render quality to what you can make with MMD then you should still be able to create both simple renders or fully animated scenes just by putting a little bit of time and effort into it. If you can make the scene actually look good is a different story - quality of the models aside.

Feels more to me like the problem is that people either aren't willing to for anything beyond the minimum amount of effort required, or people are so lazy and/or ignorant that they don't know or care to even look for tools to get them there. It depends on what exactly we're looking to do, though - feel free to elaborate on your statement.


As a reply for your general opinion on writing, there's going to be lazy/terrible writing in any medium with narrative. If you're complaining about not finding any titles without it you're not looking hard enough, although it also depends on what requirements we set both for medium, design and setting/genre. Even restricting yourself only to English/English-translated titles, there should still be more than plenty of things that should satisfy you - including Japanese titles would give you a stupid amount of available options just for VNs alone.

 

[DuniX]

One being VNs not being real games,

My problem is not VNs. My problem is real games aren't made by western developers, which is a damn shame as they can be much easier to make then VNs if they tried.

that there's not enough games using the "3D style" art style

3D Rendering is much easier content production that western developers figured out. So Game + 3D Rendering is the best of both worlds.

I wouldn't even have any problems with VNs as a "novel" if they were somewhat complete with their plots and arcs and didn't have to wait for literally years for anything to happen, and their subject matter and themes weren't Extremely Boring. Fuck Fucking Your Mother, Sister Fucker.

Novels are released in "volumes" of "books" that are somewhat self contained with their own arcs and in your enjoyment of reading them.

You can have Soap Operas that are infinite, but even they have structure in terms of arcs, plots and conclusions.

You might excuse them due to the nature of the Patreon model and WIP development. But I will not excuse them due to how many unique rendered scenes they use that makes development come to a crawl. Japanese VNs don't have that many Drawn Scenes. They have Sprites and Backgrounds.
If you want to make a VN, write the draft of the "novel" first.